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Author Topic: JK Defrag removes system restore points  (Read 53127 times)
jeroen
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 02:31:52 am »

it would be nice to find out what's the real reason behind this behaviour.
I have to leave it up to you, or perhaps somebody else, to try and find a solution. If you have any NEW information then please let me know.
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jaska915
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 02:41:53 am »

Well, don't know if this is new information to you or not;)

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=312067&sd=RMVP

http://bertk.mvps.org/html/missingrpv.html

Second link's situation isn't exacty same as here, but has some similarities.
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jeroen
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2007, 12:40:52 pm »

Thank you very much for the links. You have mentioned the first link before in this thread, the second link is new. It advises to run third-party defraggers only inside Windows Vista, not outside Vista (for example at boot time). JkDefrag can only be run inside Windows, so the article does not help.
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ewieldra
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2007, 07:15:42 pm »

HI Jeroen,

this is not correct..
JkDefrag can be run from within a Preinstalled Enviroment.. (BartPe) just like the second links says but they advise to use a Vista based PE when defragging a vista volume

Emiel
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 07:24:34 pm by ewieldra » Logged

Best Regards,

Emiel Wieldraaijer

Download JkDefragGUI from http://www.wieldraaijer.nl
jeroen
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2007, 09:25:01 pm »

JkDefrag can be run from within a Preinstalled Enviroment.. (BartPe)
Ah yes, I missed that one.
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decomp
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 04:13:20 pm »

How about the 16KB factor?
Quote
CAUSE
The System Shadow Copy provider uses a copy-on-write mechanism that operates at a 16-KB block level. This is independent of the file system's cluster allocation unit size. If the file system's cluster size is smaller than 16 KB, the System Shadow Copy provider cannot easily determine that disk defragmentation I/O is different from typical write I/O, and performs a copy-on-write operation. This might cause the Shadow Copy storage area to grow very quickly. If the storage area reaches its user-defined limit, the oldest shadow copies are deleted first.

Back to the top
RESOLUTION
If the file system's cluster size is 16 KB or larger, the provider can recognize disk defragmentation I/O and handle it correctly. Microsoft recommends that you use a 16-KB or larger cluster allocation unit size when you format the volume if you plan to defragment volumes that are used for shadow copies of shared folders, .

Default NTFS clustersize is 4KB.
MS recommends a cluster size of 16KB or more.(Beware the 4KB cluster size limit for compression,!) I did not read about the cluster size on the systems that have problems with missing shadow copies or did i miss that somehow?
I read it makes a lot of difference in growth of the shadow copies: >here<
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 04:17:51 pm by decomp » Logged
Rob C.
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 03:35:10 am »

Running v3.29
My restore points are also wiped out after a defrag. Haven't the slightest idea. Vista home premium OS.
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jeroen
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 02:41:07 pm »

My restore points are also wiped out after a defrag.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the whole shadow copy and restore points thing in Vista is totally unreliable.
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Rob C.
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« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 07:37:55 pm »

I might have discovered something about system restore in vista. I made a manual restore point with no other restore points existing. Then ran jkdefrag.exe (default.) The restore point grew from 1.7gb to almost 2.8gb but still just one manual restore point. I reset the size of restore points from 2gb to 4gb just before the manual point. Now the one restore point just got bigger instead of being removed. If the points get too big (beyond allocated size) they just get deleted, right? Am I on to something here, or just confused?
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Myriades
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« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 08:12:10 pm »

Have you already heard about compression?
System restore point compresses data til there isn't much more allocated space. Then it deletes the oldest point for freeing some space.
Does this answer your question?

Regards, Laurent
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Rob C.
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 08:21:54 pm »

I know about compression and it's effect on space used, but is jkdefrag decompressing the restore point file? How can it grow over 1gb within 30 minutes of making that restore point with no other points made? I just ran jkdefrag and *poof* same restore point almost twice the size.
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Myriades
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 08:50:17 pm »

I don't think jkdefrag unpack any data.
Before doing jkdefrag,
- have you checked twice the system restore point size @2Gb and @4Gb of allocated space?
- Have you waited after having change the allocated space?
Could you try the reverse, decrease from 4Gb to 2Gb, checking everytime the restore point size

Edit1:
When doing the reverse, you should retrieve the 1.7Gb that you had before

Regards, Laurent
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 08:53:56 pm by Myriades » Logged

Rob C.
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« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2007, 09:34:02 pm »

Quote- have you checked twice the system restore point size @2Gb and @4Gb of allocated space?

** I only checked after setting restore to 4gb.**


Quote- Have you waited after having change the allocated space?

**Waited for what?***



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Myriades
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« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2007, 09:39:19 pm »

Quote
**Waited for what?***
data uncompressing
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Rob C.
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2007, 10:00:42 pm »

Does Windows vista compress and decompress restore points on the fly as needed according to the allocation size reserved for those points?   

Example- 4gb reserved
             1 restore point @ 3gb, 1gb available
              =lower compress
 
                        or

              2 restore points @ 2gb each, no space available
                =higher compress                                                                                           

I guess what I'm really asking is if jkdefrag changes the size of the restore points already created.

Thanks.
                                                           
                                                                           
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