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Author Topic: full defrag + consolidate free space  (Read 5962 times)
Tracey2031
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« on: December 09, 2009, 08:14:07 pm »

Is it possible for MyDefrag to {fully} defragment a partition while consolidating surplus free space?
Ideally I would like to run Optimize Monthly without any fragmented {non-system non-readOnly} files.

I ran Win2K Defrag which seems to fully defrag files, but then it also fragments free space in the process.
I then tried running MyDefrag Consolidate Free Space, but then MyDefrag fragments files in the process 8-(
See below for a few other things I tried.
I have some (30 to 500 GB) partitions I would like to fully Defrag without cluttering up free space.
Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
I've tried Defragment and Optimize Monthly, but both leave many {non-system non-readOnly} files fragmented for some reason (which Win2K Defrag will correct, but will fragment free space in the process).
I copied Optimize Monthly to "Optimize Full" and commented out:
--->Size(50000000,0)
--->(LastAccessEnabled(yes) and LastAccess(,1 month ago))
--->fileExtensions to skip
, but it still leaves many non-ReadOnly files fragmented.
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Kasuha
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 08:29:01 pm »

The question is, are these files fragmented according to MyDefrag (i.e. displayed in yellow if you run AnalyseOnly) or does another program say they are fragmented?
MyDefrag uses wrap-around fragmentation, allowing files to be fragmented by small unmovable files - for all practical purposes it's almost as good as not fragmented file because the start of the next fragment is very close to the end of the previous fragment but other programs may report these files as fragmented.
Wrap-around fragmentation is turned on by default but can be turned off.
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jeroen
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 04:13:12 am »

Ideally I would like to run Optimize Monthly without any fragmented {non-system non-readOnly} files.
You will only get a "perfect" result on a disk where all files are movable. For more information see Why does MyDefrag not perfectly optimize my disk?
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poutnik
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 11:15:12 am »

why do you starve for the perfect result of action lasting even hours,
if it is destroyed in few minutes ?
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It can be fast, good or easy. You can pick just 2 of them....
Treating Spacehog zone by the same effort as Boot zone is like cleaning a garden by the same effort as a living room.
Tracey2031
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 08:26:29 pm »

My stewing over the issue has caused me to realized that I have phrased the question incorrectly.
Now: The puzzling issue is that many files appear to be identified/labeled as unmovable by MyDefrag (as opposed to "being/remaining fragmented").
I am trying to figure out how to make them movable by MyDefrag.
MS-Defrag appears to be able to move them so I know moving them should not be a problem, but I also want the ability to consolidate free space.
The OS is on C:
Applications and data are on D:
E: is online duplicates of important (to me) stuff from C: and D:.

2 typical examples of items that are identified as unmovable by MyDefrag are:
1) A downloaded vista service pack for someone ~435MB (I'm using W2K right now).
2) A ~15MB PDF
Neither are read-only, system, hidden, or in a system folder but MyDefrag still shows them as unmovable.
I would not think that anything but system and read only-files would be deemed as "unmovable".
Wrapped files can be fragmented, but should NOT be identified as unmovable.

So far, it takes about 14-16 hours to get about 95% of zone 4 complete (working while I wait).
I needed to reboot so it will be a another day or so before I get any "new" results.
I'm now going to try no(wrap-around) to see if that has any effect.

Thanks anyway, only time will tell.
Tracey
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Kasuha
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 11:18:13 pm »

Does MyDefrag mark these files as unmovable at the very beginning of the process or does it mark them red as soon as it gets to actually trying to process them.
And another thing: what antivirus/firewall and spyware detectors are you using? Isn't it possible that you use some sort of resident protection that sees such file moves as suspicious?
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jeroen
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 01:39:12 am »

The puzzling issue is that many files appear to be identified/labeled as unmovable by MyDefrag (as opposed to "being/remaining fragmented").
Which MyDefrag version are you using? There has been an issue on Win2K that was solved one or two releases ago. It might be useful to make a debug logfile to see exactly what is happening, see the I have a problem! page for instructions.

Quote
I am trying to figure out how to make them movable by MyDefrag.
It's usually a permissions problem. Are you running MyDefrag on a userid that has full write access to these files?

Quote
I'm now going to try no(wrap-around) to see if that has any effect.
Please note that the IgnoreWrapAroundFragmentation(no) setting will defragment LESS files, not more.
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Tracey2031
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 04:15:07 pm »

Does anyone have any objective experience/documentation that MyDefrag v4.2.6 actually/truly works on Windows 2000 SP4?
I realize that W2K is/has become obsolete, but I'd rather not upgrade the OS trying to get MyDefrag to work when all my other applications seem to work just fine in W2K.
I just want to know before I try spending any more time trying to get MyDefrag to work for me.

I ran spinrite on all internal drives a couple of months ago so there should not be any major  surface defects on the drives.
I also ran chkdsk /f /v on the internal drives before running MyDefrag to eliminate potential issues with the file structures.

After several days and several sessions of running MyDefrag (Optimize Monthly) on all internal drives (see below) without the expected results, I ran the following trial on all internal drives:
I ran msDefrag which resulted in 0 fragmented files with fragmented free space. I saved the reports.
I ran MyDefrag (Analyze Only), saving the results, to confirm/verify the results of msDefrag (0 fragmented files). This seems to indicate that all files on drive D (my main concern) appear to be movable because the msDefrag reports and MyDefrag results concur that there are 0 fragmented files.

I ran MyDefrag (Consolidate Free Space), again saving the results (which ran late in the day and over night).

I then re-ran msDefrag, saving the reports, and MyDefrag (Analyze Only), saving the results, seeming to confirm the results that MyDefrag Consolidate Free Space did NOT work.
The results showed that the largest gap on drive D: was 19GB when there is 38.6GB of total free space on 150GB drive D.
I also did a <ctrl>+<prtScn> to capture the image of the 2nd session of MyDefrag (Analyze Only) to document the results of MyDefrag(Consolidate Free Space) giving the appearance that MyDefrag (Consolidate Free Space) did NOT work..

I choose the Consolidate Free Space option for this test because Optimize Monthly would still be running after day of continuous operation flagging many files as unmovable.

Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
My system has the following internal drives:
FAT32 C: Operating system and drivers (+MyDefrag v4.2.6)
NTFS D: Programs/Applications
NTFS E: Online storage
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 04:16:41 pm by Tracey2031 » Logged
Kasuha
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 04:46:45 pm »

Do not use consolidate free space script. Its purpose to make the biggest possible free space at the end of the disk at a cost of minimum file moves, pushing all files from the end of the disk to gaps at the start of the disk, fragmenting them in the process.

You did not mention any results/findings regarding the wrap-around fragmentation. My personal opinion is, it works and it's useful. But if you consider files fragmented by wrap-around fragmentation fragmented and unusable, then second best what I can offer to you is: run MS defrag, then run the Optimize Daily script, because it uses operations which currently don't support wrap-around fragmentation, will not further fragment your disk by wrap-around fragmentation and will move files towards the start of the disk in a reasonable order.
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Tracey2031
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 07:42:33 pm »

Since I have started this discussion I have learned some things about disk defragmentation that I did not know before.
From thinking about this discussion, my concern has been shifted from fragmented files to files flagged as unmovable by MyDefrag but movable by msDefrag (see the end of this reply).

You did not mention any results/findings regarding the wrap-around fragmentation:
Basically, I think wraps, gaps, and other optimizations are readily acceptable and welcome.
I did not see/comprehend the wrap-around fragmentation from the statistics which means I'm kind-a clueless about them right now (by reading the statistics).

I will try MS defrag, then run the Optimize Daily script next. When it is done I will let you know the results

Meanwhile (something to think about), my desire is still to Defrag (optimizing while truly consolidating free space).
Is there a setting that can be added to the scripts where optimization has priority over minimum file movement (once-a-year type script)?
I have a couple of apps that seem to like creating > 1GB Temp or Work Files.

Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
In order to start with a clean slate I re-installed MyDefrag overwriting everything.
The only functional change I made to MyDefrag after that was to un-comment debug #175 (per a help comment)

Just FYI (and newcomers)
I attached a <ctrl>+<prntScrn> of MyDefrag (Analyze Only) after running MyDefrag (Consolidate Free Space).
It appears to be that MyDefrag has a built in assumption that minimum file movement always takes priority over defraging/consolidating whether using Optimize Monthly, Defragment Only or Consolidate Free Space settings!
This may be why so may files are flagged as unmovable by MyDefrag when movable by msDefrag.


* MyDefragPostConsolidateD.bmp (878.96 KB, 599x500 - viewed 910 times.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 07:54:57 pm by Tracey2031 » Logged
Tracey2031
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2009, 08:13:38 pm »

A thought just hit me.
re: Defrag (optimizing while truly consolidating free space).
A solution may be to keep zones 1 thru 4 as they are (gaps, wraps, and etc.) and have zone 5 make defragmentation a priority over minimum file movement.

That would truly consolidate free space.
Just-A-Thought, Tracey
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Tracey2031
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2009, 10:38:35 pm »

Here is an example of {almost perfect} consolidated free space.
Just FYI, Tracey


* MyDefragConsolidatedFreeSpace.bmp (878.96 KB, 599x500 - viewed 882 times.)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 10:42:38 pm by Tracey2031 » Logged
Kasuha
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2009, 11:37:08 pm »

Meanwhile (something to think about), my desire is still to Defrag (optimizing while truly consolidating free space).
Is there a setting that can be added to the scripts where optimization has priority over minimum file movement (once-a-year type script)?
I have a couple of apps that seem to like creating > 1GB Temp or Work Files.
My opinion is, there is no point in spending hours optimizing your harddisk to save seconds on faster access to temporary files. Generally, any big new files will become fragmented and there's little that can be done about it. Not having disk space _too_ fragmented so that this fragmentation is not too heavy is completely sufficient.

MyDefrag's optimization is aimed at best normal disk usage, i.e. it puts important files to disk's fast areas and leaves there some little space to make further optimizations easier, then it leaves main empty space at the end of the disk more like space for further expansion.

During normal system usage, gaps between zones become filled with new files and there appear gaps in optimized zones left there after deleted files. You can never reach completely optimized state on a system disk for any longer than a few minutes after the end of the optimization run. Being paranoid about having all free space in one continuous area is useless, Windows don't work like that. They will fragment that big gap very soon thanks to their file allocation algorithms anyway.
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jeroen
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 02:34:41 am »

Does anyone have any objective experience/documentation that MyDefrag v4.2.6 actually/truly works on Windows 2000 SP4?
Yes, MyDefrag works fine on Win2k. Not only do I test it myself on Win2k before every release, but it has been reported by many Win2k users here on the forum.

Quote
I saved the reports.
I think you forgot to attach the reports, I do not see them.

Quote
MyDefrag Consolidate Free Space did NOT work.
You have written a lot of postings and I see some screen snapshots, but I'm afraid it's still not clear to me what exactly you think is not working. Please be concise, I do not have time to read through pages and pages of text. If the problem is unmovable files then please tell me which files are unmovable, and please include a debug(175) logfile, not all of it but enough to demonstrate the problem. For more information see the I have a problem! page.
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Tracey2031
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2009, 06:17:43 pm »

I now realize I have 2 issues here.
Since it would be clearer to deal with 1 issue at a time, I will finish this post regarding the consolidate free space issue and post another question about full defrag issue at a later date if I cannot resolve the issue myself.

Re: consolidate free space
First, I would like to say that MyDefrag appears to be working in a good/positive and practical manner because my desktop appears to load a little faster than it did before I used MyDefrag Smiley
Not exactly my {main} purpose for trying MyDefrag, but a welcome functionality (which may be MyDefrag's main/primary purpose nevertheless).

My issue with MyDefrag's consolidation was based on my understanding of the standard definition of consolidate (from a web dictionary) - consolidate: form into a solid mass or whole; "The mud had consolidated overnight"
All my previous experience with disk defragers used/applied this definition of consolidate when speaking about defraging files and free space.

My D: drive had 38.6GB of free space.
After running MyDefrag's Consolidate Free Space I expected to see the log to report that the Biggest gap: 38.6GB (minus gaps created).
When only 19GB was appeared as the biggest gap I thought something was wrong (needed to be fixed/corrected because of a bug/flaw in the program).

However, the replies to my posts enlightened my understanding of MyDefrag:
Quote
My opinion is... MyDefrag's optimization is aimed at best normal disk usage... Being paranoid about having all free space in one continuous area is useless, Windows don't work like that...

In reality, MyDefrag's use of the term consolidate is actually misleading and incorrect.
This does not diminish the good/effective/useful/practical work that MyDefrag does, but MyDefrag's use of the term consolidate leads to a false impression.
An accurate or more appropriate term and definition in place of consolidate free space would be something like defragment free space with minimal file movement as deemed necessary/important by MyDefrag.

I am not at all criticizing or deriding the optimal/practical work that MyDefrag is currently doing.
Thanks for developing MyDefrag and reading this post, Tracey

BTW, In the future (near or distant), I still would like to see (which I will post under enhancements):
+++ an additional real/true consolidate free space option/script, but that would be an enhancement/improvement/feature to be added (as opposed to a "fix").
+++ an additional real/true defragment script that defragments ALL possible files without MyDefrag making an executive decision as to whether or not MyDefrag wants to defragment a file (but -again- that would be an enhancement/improvement/feature to be added as opposed to a "fix").

I have some online and USB storage drives that I am paranoid about completely defraging even if it is only once or twice a year or once in the lifetime of the disk Wink
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