Highly fragmented $MFT and directories on a Windows 7 install

[andublin]

I've installed Win 7 (64 bit) on a couple of pilot machines. I'm noticing a lot of unmovable files/fragments, far more than XP.

This seems to be causing a HIGHLY fragmented MFT and directories, because the unmovable files/fragments are located exactly where the MFT, and directories, are.
Repeated runs of MyDefrag do not improve the situation, and there's a lot of shuffling going on in zone 1 and 2 each time.
Is anyone else seeing this? and if so, is there a way to force Mydefrag to not fragment the standard zone 1 and 2 mft and directories; ( like fastfill does not fragment files)?
Maybe an enhancement?
Thanks.
 

[quanthero]

I think those unmovable files are Volume Shadow Copies. They cannot be defragmented (even by defragmenters which can do defrag during boot). They only solution is to disable System Restore or cleanup all the restore points except the last one (use disk cleanup tool for this).

[jeroen]

I'm noticing a lot of unmovable files/fragments, far more than XP.

See your Mydefrag.log file of a list of unmovable files. Then see the "How to handle special files" section in the Frequently Asked Questions for tips on how to deal with them.

[BloodySword]

First disable System Restore. This thing is totally useless. Use backup images instead...
Then disable Volume Shadow copy service and Windows Search... Useless services...
Then open the console with admin rights and type: fsutil usn deletejournal /D c:
Then run Mydefrag MontlyOpzimize script. After a reboot the USN journal is recreated
but it doesn't matter. Yout don't need to delete this journal anymore.

[cg]

I wouldn't call System Restore useless.  It can help you restore to a point in time and while I agree backups are the best way to go, there still is value in System Restore in that you aren't backing up the entire drive - just point in time system file snapshots.

When I do my once a month defrag process... I disable system restore... run MyDefrag...  then re-enable system restore...  Works perfectly.

[andublin]

Thank you all. But those are workarounds. The question remains unanswered
"is there a way to force Mydefrag to not fragment the standard zone 1 and 2 mft and directories; ( like fastfill does not fragment files)? Maybe an enhancement?"
Thanks.

[jeroen]

The question remains unanswered "is there a way to force Mydefrag to not fragment the standard zone 1 and 2 mft and directories?"

Yes, by taking the unmovables out of the way. No, if you don't want to do that.

[BloodySword]

I wouldn't call System Restore useless.  It can help you restore to a point in time and while I agree backups are the best way to go, there still is value in System Restore in that you aren't backing up the entire drive - just point in time system file snapshots.

And it will backup malware.

When I do my once a month defrag process... I disable system restore... run MyDefrag...  then re-enable system restore...  Works perfectly.

This will delete all your snapshots, i guess. So you can disable it completely because without snapshots it is useless. Creating a new snapshot is not the same. What if a
file got corrupted and you notice it too late? Backups are the best way to go. There are implementations of incemental backups.

[jeroen]

It can help you restore to a point in time

I agree with BloodySword. Restore points are a backup of certain Windows system files, such as drivers, registry, menu, desktop settings, and more. They do not backup anything else, such as user files and non-Windows programs. Also, restore points are deleted automatically by Windows. You should therefore NOT rely on restore points in any way. Personally I always turn them off, saving a ton of diskspace.

[quanthero]

I just want to point out that USN Journal in Windows 7 is movable. So there is no need to fsutil usn deletejournal /d C: it.

[BloodySword]

Don't use Windows 7, using Vista. I'll upgrade with a completely new laptop in a few months.

[cg]

And it will backup malware.

haha - so will full disc backups if you have malware on your computer... that's beside the point.

I don't disagree with what you guys said...

But suggesting that people turn it off isn't really a smart thing either because most people do not do full disc backups like you or I.  I not only have a RAID6, but I also have multiple backups of my key files on different drives just in case I have catastrophic failure.   But for the 99.99% of people who don't do backups or can't afford the extra space, they probably shouldn't disable System Restore for good.

System Restore can and does save users when they have new driver issues or they install a program that stupidly downgrades a system file.  Its not meant to save them from deleting things by mistake - only to help recover from a system that suddenly becomes unstable. 

When I turn off System Restore, it does remove the saved restore points as you pointed out.  I then run MyDefrag Monthly.. Then I turn System Restore back on.  So for the next Month I have System Restore points just in case... even though I have backups too

[poutnik]

And it will backup malware.

So do backups

This will delete all your snapshots, i guess. So you can disable it completely because without snapshots it is useless. Creating a new snapshot is not the same. What if a
file got corrupted and you notice it too late? Backups are the best way to go. There are implementations of incemental backups.

If you have fresh backup, why should deleted snaphots matter ? Backuping and snapshoting are complements, not opponents. It can happen you want to restore just those system files.
Personally, I do not use snapshots, but weekly system partition backup. But I do not think snapshots are useless.

[BloodySword]

or they install a program that stupidly downgrades a system file.

On Windows Vista and 7, that's impossible. Do you know the big folder "WinSxs"? Windows stores older versions of dlls and components there to mantain compatibility of all applications. The System Restore has nothing to do with it any more.

If you have fresh backup, why should deleted snaphots matter ? Backuping and snapshoting are complements, not opponents. It can happen you want to restore just those system files.
Personally, I do not use snapshots, but weekly system partition backup. But I do not think snapshots are useless.

For me they are useless because in fact they are written on the same drive and same partition and they are always in the way and causing huge fragmentation. Only a snapshot on an alternative disk is save.

I'm using nfgdump and selfimage for making backups. SelfImage has the disadvantage, that the images can't be split for burning them on DVD or something, but SelfImage comes with multithreading. Nfgdump ignores the pagefile.sys and additionally it can split the image files. But it doesn't support multithreading and creating backups is very time-intensive.

[poutnik]

For me they are useless because in fact they are written on the same drive and same partition and they are always in the way and causing huge fragmentation. Only a snapshot on an alternative disk is save.

I'm using nfgdump and selfimage for making backups. SelfImage has the disadvantage, that the images can't be split for burning them on DVD or something, but SelfImage comes with multithreading. Nfgdump ignores the pagefile.sys and additionally it can split the image files. But it doesn't support multithreading and creating backups is very time-intensive.

Useless and useless for me are different terms.

Complement means system snapshot does not serve as backup, and backup doesnot serve as system snapshot.
Snapshot cannot be therefore blamed for not having attributes of backup and viceverse.

I use Macrium Reflect Free Edition.
Backuping of 50GB system partition to about 17 GB compressed image on the 2nd HD takes 15 minutes.